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Let us know! 1/24 - APEX2014 Melee Champion, VGBC| Dr. Peepee 1/26 - APEX2014 Project M Champion, CT|EMP Armada ??? - Plup Current asks out: APEX2014 Brawl Champion Nairo, APEX2014 64 Champion Isai, APEX2014 Fan Favorite aMSa Past Topics Here. a community for&#32;5 yearsmessage the moderatorsMODERATORSlampiaioElbedharSilentViolinsIsatisel-progssblivestreamsbotdaniellee912dacogsWinnarlyDC_Phalloides...and 5 more &raquo;1111213Best way to counter Mario in project m?&#32;(self.smashbros)submitted&#32;23 days&#32;ago&#32;by&#32;nospimi99My mains are Mewtwo Ganon and G&W so I&#39;d prefer strategies for those characters. He basically sits back and throws fireballs until I either jab to counter them or PowerShield them which he then slides in for a dash attack, does 2-3 up smashes then jumps and does uair. After that I&#39;m usually at about 70% and slides in with a down or up smash. It&#39;s really fucking annoying. He&#39;s also a fan of spamming fireballs when you try to get back up on the stage. Just annoying shit. What&#39;s is the best way to counter this? 25 commentssharecancelall 25 commentssorted by:&#32;bestbesttopnewhotcontroversialoldrandom[+]Victawr&#32;12 points13 points14 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago* (0 children)[&ndash;]Victawr&#32;12 points13 points14 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago*In P:M you need to take advantage of your speed. If you asked this about Melee I would laugh.. But alright, the thing is, you&#39;re not wanting to counter Mario. You&#39;re looking to specifically counter your friend&#39;s tactic. There is nothing wrong with that, its just that what I&#39;m about to say is specific to that tactic and NOT how you would face the tricky fucker that is Mario in any matchup. It truly depends. Anyways to start, lets look at what he&#39;s doing: Sitting on the side, throws fireballs, dashes and combos your face a bit. And when you&#39;re on the ledge he just fireballs. Lets just take a look at these fireballs: If he&#39;s throwing fireballs at you within range of a dash attack then he&#39;s playing boldly or you&#39;re playing slowly. With Ganon, stay in the air. Approach him with a stomp or a back-air. If he&#39;s just sitting around fireballing you should even be able to dodge-roll in for an approach. Approach from above, in this case though. As MewTwo/GW, just reflect or bucket. Make him approach if you&#39;re scared. Otherwise, its similar with MewTwo -- just jump, dodge, and hit him with your tail&#39;s unreasonable range. As M2 you should be winning your approach against mario. Ganon its a bit tougher but you really need to use your speed to your advantage here and don&#39;t wait around. This isn&#39;t brawl anymore. With G&W its a bit tricky on the approach and personally I don&#39;t see it as a good matchup for G&W at lower levels of play but keep at it. Approach with a shorthop forward-air and keep blasting him with arials. As for the fireballs on getting back on the stage? Practice your sweetspots and remember that you have like 4 ways to get up. Press B while getting up for an attack. Press R and you&#39;ll do a dodge / extended recovery. During recovery, the fireballs should be the least of your concerns. If he hits you with one while recovering that means you get an extra up-B. If he hits you one on your way up from a ledge? Thats your own fault. If he&#39;s above you shooting fireballs down at you? MewTwo shouldnt have an issue with that, nor should G&W. Ganon however shouldn&#39;t really be in that position. Hard to explain that one but I&#39;m not sure you&#39;re at that level of play yet. Basically against mario you need to keep moving. Move at him fast and always be ready for his dash attack. Jump, dodge-roll, or shield it. Keep him grabbed if you&#39;re playing Ganon. Ganon hits WAY harder than Mario, and that matchup to me shouldn&#39;t be a problem if you can handle Mario&#39;s speed. Theres too much advice to give about THREE different matchups. Its hard to say what the issue is in your matchups as well. What are your current approaches? Edit: Saw that you didn&#39;t know what crouch cancel means, I&#39;ll give you an easier bit of directions to follow: If hes throwing fireballs at you, approach from above, reflect them, or shield+dodge to approach. If he dash attacks, crouch, because you will not be knocked back and you can attack him quickly after that. If not that, shield it, then grab out of your shield and do something with that new advantage. If not that, jump over it and attack him. If he is juggling you (keeping you in the air), try to do an aerial dodge (R in the air) or keep pushing your sticks to the side to get out of it, OR once youre high enough percentage you should be able to attack him in the air if he tries again. If hes throwing things at you as you recover, dodge and try to land RIGHT on the ledge (sweet spotting). This way you get an invincibility frame and many options on how you will get up from the ledge. If you&#39;re below the stage, angle your up+Bs so they will make you grab the ledge very quickly. But most of all? Just try everything. If he keeps beating you with the same tactic that means that you have many new opportunities to see what works against it. And don&#39;t fret, that shit happens at higher levels too. Back when I just got into the tourney scene I could not do shit against Fox and his damn perfect control and his shine spikes. Game after game. You figure it out with practice. permalinksave[+]JorgitisPR&#32;7 points8 points9 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]JorgitisPR&#32;7 points8 points9 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoShield grab his dash-attack? And if you know his dash attack is coming, you should be able to wavedash/dashdance away and punish. As to him edge guarding with fireballs, best thing you can do is not waste your double jump; be very selective on when you use it when you&#39;re coming back to the stage. permalinksave[+]Afro-Ninja&#32;7 points8 points9 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (6 children)[&ndash;]Afro-Ninja&#32;7 points8 points9 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoI have to say, I do feel like mario is a little OP in project M. really powerful attacks, decent recovery, decent weight, combos, and little to no lag on any of his moves. permalinksave[+]GourmetPez&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (4 children)[&ndash;]GourmetPez&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoMario is one of my favorite characters to play in PM because this is easily his best incarnation. He has little bits of every Mario in him, from his awesome 64 dair, to the melee Mario/Doc fair, awesome bair, melee-fied brawl range tilts. permalinksaveparent[+]TheProdigyLol&#32;2 points3 points4 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (3 children)[&ndash;]TheProdigyLol&#32;2 points3 points4 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoGodlike recovery options, OP doc down-smash, one of the top 3 projectiles in the game, sick wavedash, walljumping capabilities, killing backthrow, chaingrab on mid-weight characters. Should I go on? Mario is either high A or S tier without a doubt. permalinksaveparent[+]SpankThatDill&#32;-2 points-1 points0 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]SpankThatDill&#32;-2 points-1 points0 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoWow, such mario, nice permalinksaveparent[+]GourmetPez&#32;-2 points-1 points0 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (1 child)[&ndash;]GourmetPez&#32;-2 points-1 points0 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoI agree completely. I would go as far as to say S tier as of right now. I alt Mario in SSB, main Fox, and in melee I main Falco/Fox/Marth, but in my early days (2006) I alt&#39;d Doc. So I&#39;ve always had a Mario-esque base character in my pocket over the years. Since I was in the PMBR from 2009-2012 I&#39;ve played every character pretty extensively to the point where I don&#39;t really have a main in PM, but I always seem to gravitate to Mario, Roy, and Link the most often. My play group says that my Mario is easily my best character, but I honestly think its just because Mario is so damn good lol. My combos with him rival my Falcon/Falco in terms of style, raw damage, and KO ability. He is insanely fun, and IMO one of the best characters so far. permalinksaveparent[+]TheProdigyLol&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;21 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]TheProdigyLol&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;21 days&#32;agoYeah, pretty much same here. I don&#39;t have a main in PM, and just jump around on characters, and people seem to complain about my Mario the most. But from what you&#39;ve said here, it just leads me to believe he&#39;s really a strong character. Good to know. permalinksaveparent[+]Bamboozled17&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]Bamboozled17&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoYeah, when my friend uses him, I have to go outside of my main and grab Sonic. permalinksaveparent[+]samehada121&#32;5 points6 points7 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (1 child)[&ndash;]samehada121&#32;5 points6 points7 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoEasiest thing would be to fill G&W&#39;s bucket with fireballs, or reflect them with mewtwo&#39;s side b. permalinksave[+]t-steak&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]t-steak&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoReflect with side b or just teleport behind him. Or jump. permalinksaveparent[+]Nyan_Ryan&#32;2 points3 points4 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]Nyan_Ryan&#32;2 points3 points4 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoWith G&W shield grab his dash attack, down throw, jab, and he will be forced to stand up (called a jab reset, if you didn&#39;t know) and then you can either regrab, or any smash attack. Repeat until he learns to tech it or until he dies. permalinksave[+]ClickDecision&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (3 children)[&ndash;]ClickDecision&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;agowait. is g&w somehow a viable character in pm? o.0 permalinksave[+]derek0660&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]derek0660&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;agohe is broken as fk in p:m. the down tilt man, the down tilt ): permalinksaveparent[+]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoThe biggest problem with G&W in brawl was his horrible landing lag, with that taken care of he is pretty much a usable character with easily killable smash attacks, combo enabling grabs, and a great recovery he&#39;s pretty beast with his biggest problem being his weight (which can be countered with bucket breaking) permalinksaveparent[+]Pavoneo&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]Pavoneo&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoHe&#39;s a great character now (of course I say that about everyone in PM). His only issue really is his slow tech rolls but he has a good wavedash to make up a bit for it. Great recovery/combos/movement/etc. His spacing might not be the best (although his nair is insane for spacing), along with his weight but those are things people could get by. permalinksaveparent[+]cyan386&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (1 child)[&ndash;]cyan386&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoOh no, this sounds like me. permalinksave[+]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoDan? permalinksaveparent[+]EclipseKirby&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago* (3 children)[&ndash;]EclipseKirby&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago*Until high percents, Mario&#39;s dash attack is crouch cancellable, so you can do that and punish him for it, particularly with G&W. It&#39;s not very safe on block either. This should be especially easy if his strategy is truly that transparent. As you know, you can beat fireballs with some moves. If he throws a fireball from an unsafe range, you should be able to cancel the fireball and hit him as well. If he does a full hop fireball from a bad range, just run under him. Be sure to mix in platform movement so Mario has a harder time keeping a good position with his fireballs. Otherwise, you&#39;ll have to use OoS wavedashes and power shields (and Oil Panic) to get around them. permalinksave[+]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (2 children)[&ndash;]nospimi99[S]&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoWhat do you mean by crouch cancelable? permalinksaveparent[+]EclipseKirby&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]EclipseKirby&#32;1 point2 points3 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoLike what eatporkchopsdaily said, it&#39;s holding down when you get hit. It reduces the knockback and hitstun you take, often enough that the attack won&#39;t even knock you out of your crouch, thus letting you counter attack. The effectiveness of CCing varies based on your percent and what you&#39;re getting hit by. permalinksaveparent[+]eatporkchopsdaily&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]eatporkchopsdaily&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoHold down basically and you wont get sent upwards. Edit : someone correct me if I&#39;m wrong. permalinksaveparent[+]Colosso_Champion&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;ago (1 child)[&ndash;]Colosso_Champion&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;23 days&#32;agoThis has been pointed out already, but definitely fill up G&W&#39;s bucket with the fireballs. He&#39;ll think twice about spamming projectiles after you kill him with a full bucket. permalinksave[+]Khlx&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]Khlx&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoNote: you can use his bucket even if its not full (1 or 2 layers full) and its still a powerfull move permalinksaveparent[+]apieceofeight23&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;ago (0 children)[&ndash;]apieceofeight23&#32;0 points1 point2 points&#32;22 days&#32;agoA good tactic to catch him off guard would be to run up close to him and shield. If he keeps attacking your shield, grab him. Don&#39;t do it to much though, or he&#39;ll catch on and punish you for it. 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